3 Difficult Conversations with your Pastor and How to Have them
There will come a time in your ministry career when you have to have a hard conversation with your boss. I faced one early on when I realized that after taxes, I wasn't making enough to support my family. After a little more than a year on the job, I had to sit down with my pastor and ask for a significant raise.
I recently read a post from another pastor in a similar situation who dreaded having that conversation just as much as I did. What I've learned over the years is that the longer you put it off, the more room there is for discontent, bitterness, and church hurt to take root. So bite the bullet and have the conversation.
I'm not going to leave you there, though. I want to help you navigate the three hardest conversations you can have with your boss. While I'll give specifics for each one, I strongly recommend using the meeting format I laid out in 5 Steps to Presenting Your Genius Idea to Your Pastor. It applies here more than you might think.
One thing I won't cover is knowing when it's time to move on. I address that here, and how to leave well here.
1. Asking to Go Full-Time
Many ministry leaders start as volunteers or part-time staff. I was no exception. I was just so excited to serve in my calling that I didn’t really care what they paid me. But as the church grows, so do your responsibilities.
Kidmin may be the worst offender. I've seen kids' workers asked to lead children from birth through sixth grade across Sunday morning, Wednesday night, and Sunday School, while also recruiting and training volunteers for each environment. And that's just the weekly load. They also are responsible for all outreach events like VBS, Egg Hunts, and Fall Festivals. Add in the ongoing work of growing the ministry. And then do all of it in ten hours a week for less than minimum wage.
It's a lot. Sometimes this arrangement exists simply because the church genuinely can't afford to bring someone on full-time. They'd love to, but the money isn't there.
Even so, I believe in what James said in James 4:2, “you have not because you ask not.” Here's what to bring into that conversation.
A full list of your duties. Go beyond your job description, if you were even given one. There's a good chance you're doing far more than your pastor realizes. Write down every responsibility and how long it takes. This helps your boss see what you're actually bringing to the table.
The hours you need. A standard work week is 40 hours, but in ministry it can easily push past 50. Talk honestly about how many hours it actually takes to accomplish everything expected of you. If you can't commit to a full 40, be upfront about that too. You may simply need a raise that compensates you fairly for the hours you're already giving away for free.
How much you need to make. Do your homework before you walk in. Know what it costs to support your family, and what income you'd be leaving behind if you're stepping away from a secular job. Benefits are another piece of this conversation. Some churches offer nothing; others have generous packages. If you're going full-time, find out what you're entitled to and ask about it.
2. Asking for a Raise
This conversation is similar to the first but with some important differences. You're not asking for more hours. You're asking to be fairly compensated for the time you're already giving.
I wrote about kidmin compensation in more depth here, but you may not be being paid a livable wage in your area. You should be paid fairly and commiserate with the work you’re doing. So don’t be afraid to ask. If you never bring it up, some leaders will assume you're satisfied and put those dollars elsewhere.
Bring these things into the meeting.
A full list of your duties. Again, you may be doing significantly more than what's on your original job description. At one church I was hired as the kids' pastor, but five years in I was also running all the church marketing and the director of multisite ministries. My pastor honored that with additional compensation, but he might not have known the full picture if I hadn't shown him. Don't assume your pastor sees everything you're contributing.
Salary comparisons from similar churches. Getting accurate salary data in ministry can be tricky since two people with the title of kids' pastor can have wildly different workloads depending on their church size. Sites like churchsalary.com research pastoral salaries across the country and can give you a reasonable ballpark for what someone in your role and context should be making.
Cost of living data for your area. Many churches overlook this entirely. Of the six churches I've served at, only half gave me annual raises, and even those were inconsistent. If a significant raise isn't possible, asking for a 2-3% cost-of-living adjustment is a more modest and often more achievable request. Know what the median cost of living is in your area before you go in. If you're earning below that, you have every right to ask for more. You need to be able to afford to live in the community you're serving.
One more thing on both of these conversations.
Be prepared to hear no. That's what happened to me when I asked for the raise I mentioned at the top of this post. Many pastors genuinely want to pay their staff more but don't have the budget to do it. Before you go into either of these meetings, know what you'll do if you don't get what you asked for.
Some alternatives worth considering:
Extra paid time off or vacation days. At one church I knew a raise wasn't possible, so I asked for an additional week of vacation. It relieved a lot of pressure on my family.
Comp time after heavy ministry weeks. If you work a 70-hour week leading up to and through VBS, asking for extra recovery time is reasonable, exempt employee or not.
Flexibility to take on bi-vocational or side work to bridge the financial gap. Some churches restrict outside employment, but for others it may be necessary and worth discussing. Substitute teaching, for example, can be a great outreach opportunity and put a few extra dollars in your pocket.
Never give your pastor an ultimatum. But if ministry work is genuinely preventing you from providing for your family, stepping back may be the right call. Know where you stand before you walk in. You don’t want to emotionally lash out and say or do something you’ll regret later.
3. Addressing Conflict with Another Staff Member
A few years ago I wrote a post that made it into my book Next Level Kidmin, The __________ Department Is Not Your Enemy. In several of the churches I served, the kids' pastor and the youth pastor were at odds. That kind of division makes it nearly impossible to reach anyone for Jesus. As Jesus said, a divided house cannot stand. (Matthew 12:25)
If you find yourself in ongoing conflict with another ministry leader and can't resolve it between the two of you, it's time to bring your boss in. The longer you let it go, the more bitterness builds, and that affects your ministry, your health, and your other relationships. Don't give the enemy a foothold.
When you set up the meeting, I recommend following the same framework from the presenting your genius idea post. Your conflict isn't a genius idea, but your pastor still needs to know what they're walking into before both of you are in the room.
Once you're there, here's what can help the conversation go well.
Pray first. You should pray before all of these conversations, but you're especially going to need the Holy Spirit in this one.
Share your side as objectively as possible. Don't point fingers. That puts people on the defensive immediately and shuts the conversation down before it starts.
Let the other person share their side. They may not be as measured as you. Don't let them bait you into a reaction. Let them say their piece and sit in the silence.
Apologize for your part. Even if you think you’re completely in the right, if you’ve gotten to this stage, you’ve hurt some feelings. Apologize and work towards reconciliation.
Follow your pastor's lead. Listen carefully to any questions they ask and take their guidance seriously. They don't want division on their team any more than you do. You asked for their help, so use it.
These are some of the hardest conversations you'll ever have, inside or outside of ministry. Pray before you step into any of these rooms. You need wisdom and courage that go beyond your own. Go in prepared for the possibility that you won't get what you want, and remember that there are almost certainly things happening behind the scenes that you're not aware of. One thing I’ve learned from almost a year as a lead pastor is that there are things going on that you have no idea about. I can’t speak for your pastor, but I would love to give my staff all they ask for and more. But sometimes that’s impossible. I want to believe the same about yours.
Pray first. Do your homework. Call the meeting. Go with boldness. Who knows? They may just say yes, and you enter a new season of ministry that brings success and fulfillment.
You've got this.
In my last post, I wrote about how different things look from the lead pastor's chair. While much of the work is familiar, there are some important differences that most lead pastors never fully see. That's the genesis of this two-part series.
This week I'm speaking from my own experience as a kids' pastor, along with some honest feedback I gathered from several kidmin Facebook groups. Next week, I'll flip the script and share what lead pastors wish their staff, and specifically their kidmin leaders, understand.